10-02-2015, 01:27 AM
(Edited 10-02-2015, 01:32 AM by Cheeky Gnando’s.)
Just typed up a reply there and wifi dipped out, lost the lot
I get what you're saying regarding political realities Dank, and I don't disagree that mental health treatment and dialogue surrounding the issue at all levels in the US is completely insufficient. Quite obviously, there is a profile the majority of these mass shooters fit into, and mental health is an important aspect of that. My view, though, is that to focus on mental health as the critical issue is to overlook the huge numbers of gun crimes perpetrated by people with no history, diagnosis or sign of mental illness, and doesn't take into account research which has suggested a correlation between mental illness and violence, but not a particularly strong one. An interesting article from The New Yorker below which goes into some of the key issues and references research into the correlation:
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-k...n-violence
An important point raised there is that no amount of improvement in mental health services/treatment would prevent one of these events if it was the first diagnosable act by the perpetrator. Jaylen Fryberg is a perfect example of this. I believe that access and availability of guns is the single biggest factor both perpetuating gun culture in the USA and in creating the conditions for these massacres. I can say what I like on this one with impunity, because I'm just some cretin off a god forsaken corner of the Hearts supporting Internet and the gun lobby don't care that I think they're retards. I'm not ignoring the political reality when I attack them either, not at all - I'm attacking that political reality as being completely absurd in my opinion. That's why we will see the playing to the gallery over the coming days as you say, because both sides are now so entrenched and (particularly the pro-gun side) are so unwilling to compromise that very little will happen. Politically, the lines have been drawn in the sand, so that virtually any attempts at increasing gun control will be fought against and blocked at every turn, as they see it as the first step down the road to the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby - a full ban. So I totally agree with you on the real politik, I just reject that reality as being the way it has to be.
To illustrate that, the fairly modest gun controls Obama put to Congress a couple of years ago were supported by 92% of the polled public, whilst the majority were not in favour of an outright ban as I would be - so in my eyes there is still room for progress to be made, without any fundamental erosion of the 200-odd year old bill of rights and without taking people's guns away from them. However, the decline of bipartisanship in recent years has meant that Congress is even more impotent in dealing with the issue than in the past. The problem for me is, you can't ever prevent all violent crime, and with that comes the fact you certainly can't prevent gun crime when there is a wide availability of guns, particularly for people who really shouldn't have access to them. That IMO is the primary concern, rather than mental health. But that said, it is an issue that presents a huge challenge.
I get what you're saying regarding political realities Dank, and I don't disagree that mental health treatment and dialogue surrounding the issue at all levels in the US is completely insufficient. Quite obviously, there is a profile the majority of these mass shooters fit into, and mental health is an important aspect of that. My view, though, is that to focus on mental health as the critical issue is to overlook the huge numbers of gun crimes perpetrated by people with no history, diagnosis or sign of mental illness, and doesn't take into account research which has suggested a correlation between mental illness and violence, but not a particularly strong one. An interesting article from The New Yorker below which goes into some of the key issues and references research into the correlation:
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-k...n-violence
An important point raised there is that no amount of improvement in mental health services/treatment would prevent one of these events if it was the first diagnosable act by the perpetrator. Jaylen Fryberg is a perfect example of this. I believe that access and availability of guns is the single biggest factor both perpetuating gun culture in the USA and in creating the conditions for these massacres. I can say what I like on this one with impunity, because I'm just some cretin off a god forsaken corner of the Hearts supporting Internet and the gun lobby don't care that I think they're retards. I'm not ignoring the political reality when I attack them either, not at all - I'm attacking that political reality as being completely absurd in my opinion. That's why we will see the playing to the gallery over the coming days as you say, because both sides are now so entrenched and (particularly the pro-gun side) are so unwilling to compromise that very little will happen. Politically, the lines have been drawn in the sand, so that virtually any attempts at increasing gun control will be fought against and blocked at every turn, as they see it as the first step down the road to the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby - a full ban. So I totally agree with you on the real politik, I just reject that reality as being the way it has to be.
To illustrate that, the fairly modest gun controls Obama put to Congress a couple of years ago were supported by 92% of the polled public, whilst the majority were not in favour of an outright ban as I would be - so in my eyes there is still room for progress to be made, without any fundamental erosion of the 200-odd year old bill of rights and without taking people's guns away from them. However, the decline of bipartisanship in recent years has meant that Congress is even more impotent in dealing with the issue than in the past. The problem for me is, you can't ever prevent all violent crime, and with that comes the fact you certainly can't prevent gun crime when there is a wide availability of guns, particularly for people who really shouldn't have access to them. That IMO is the primary concern, rather than mental health. But that said, it is an issue that presents a huge challenge.