10-16-2015, 04:05 PM -
(10-16-2015, 02:45 PM)Nicolas Sarkozy Wrote: Just catching up on this thread but this struck me as a bizarre outlook from someone in education. Why are Russell Group unis needed if other institutions are good enough for everyone else?
Not an expert on the intricacies of the grammar school system but a few of my mates from uni (from working class and wealthy areas) were quite vocal in their support of them. If you're going to have schools which are more prestigious or stronger academically than others, it seems fairer to give the places to kids based on academic testing - a bit harsh to judge that at 11/12 years old but realistically that's when you have to do it. Certainly fairer than the Scottish system where the majority of places in the best schools go to the kids whose grandparents want to avoid some inheritance tax.
If you read through the entire conversation, you'll see that the paragraph you quoted was exposing the logical fallacy of Mags' point, not me making the point at face value. You have equated universities with secondaries before in these discussions, I take it you work in further education? I don't think the comparison is analogous anyway, tbh, because universities are by their nature selective, whereas every child has a universal human right to education at secondary level.
Anecdotal evidence of people being in favour of them is all well and good, but I've already highlighted the wider evidence that shows their negative impact on inequality and social mobility, whilst not improving outcomes for the minority of able pupils to any real degree.
Walter, I don't teach in a school with high levels of deprivation (there are plenty of deprived kids, but they are not the majority) and there are high numbers of placement kids who are at the school by choice, so that's not something I encounter on a daily basis - pupils almost all want to do well, although there are strategies you can employ to make sure that participation in learning isn't the preserve of those who put their hands up first in any case. I have, though, taught at other schools with different demographics and ethoses and it wasn't an issue there either.