01-29-2017, 08:27 AM -
(01-29-2017, 08:00 AM)shaun.lawson Wrote: Good response Mozzer, thanks for that. To deal with a few of your points:
Sorry - those reasons are not 'obvious' to me. In an election which only two candidates can win, a vote for one of the others is a wasted vote which helps the real danger win. I view Johnson and Stein voters as infantile narcissists; people who act as though elections don't have real consequences, when they do. Massive ones.
I recommend, again, Christopher Hitchens book on the Clinton's "No one left to lie to". That's a fine starting point for those who see Trump as more dangerous than Hillary. Also, Hillary is much more of an enemy of liberal values than Trump...she despises free speech and uses bullying to shut down any criticism of her, she is a war monger, she proposed the assassination of Julian Assange, she believes some women are more equal than others. I could go on.
I don't believe that in a democratic election that a vote for one candidate is actually a vote for another candidate. Besides surely that benefits both candidates in this instance with Clinton seeing disillusioned Republicans voting for her or the LP over Trump?
Clinton, while being utterly uninspiring and a very average candidate, essentially meant a continuation of the same steady as she goes approach of Obama. That might not excite - but it's about a billion times preferable to what Trump's already doing.
And it's about a million times preferable to someone who doesn't know where Aleppo is and couldn't explain any of his policies to save his life; and someone else who's almost as much of a Putin puppet as Trump, and all but scammed the American people in her laughable fundraising efforts in the weeks following an election she helped him win.
Trump's an enemy of liberal values himself, which is precisely the problem. Radical Islam is a huge danger, yes; Islam, however, is not. The absolutely colossal majority of Muslims all over the world are no threat to anyone (but are themselves threatened by radical Islam in ways Westerners can't even begin to comprehend).
We just have to agree to disagree on this issue. I understand it's a very emotive topic for people and I've said all I have to say on it really
But given this huge 'threat' you think Islam poses: will you be campaigning for a ban on lightning too, given it poses much more of a threat in terms of fatalities? How about a ban on cars? Lethal weapons which billions get behind the wheel of every day? I especially look forward to your campaigns to ban alcohol, tobacco, and junk food of any kind, given how many people are killed by these every year.
And of course, Trump, like all Republicans, is a huge fan of guns, the real threat. Republicans think an embryo has more rights than a US citizen who happened to be born somewhere else. And that is vile.
These aren't arguments that someone as intelligent as you should be making really shaun.lawson. It should be beneath you. You don't need to rely on this kind of thing.
Define 'safe place'. Should all Syrian or Iraqi refugees just stay in Jordan or Lebanon with no food, no water, no ability to support themselves, and where both countries are so overwhelmed, people are dying every day? Or how about Turkey - Isis are no threat there, are they?
By your argument, neither the UK nor (especially) the US should ever have accepted a single Jew fleeing the build-up to war, the Holocaust or its aftermath. By your argument, Western countries should almost always have no refugees at all. And what a lousy, stinking argument that is.
Um...the UK was the nearest safe place for Jews fleeing Nazi Germany. They couldn't go to France, Belgium, Poland, Austria, Netherlands, Hungary etc etc etc.
The current ban on immigration and refugees is flawed at best and ludicrous at worst. I do however believe that some form of vetting is required to stop radical Islamists entering the USA. I understand that position will see me labelled by the SJW crowd but I really don't care.
Anyhow...there is no real agreement to be found here so I'm dropping out for the time being. Not to a safe space though...because I'm not a fucking idiot who thinks that my feelings should matter!
Mozzer