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Contagion 2020
Started by Felix




11611 posts in this topic
Shuto Makino
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09-22-2020, 09:29 PM -
(09-22-2020, 08:49 PM)Shteve Wrote: I'm over the you can do this but you can't do that, you can do all the shite things but you better not enjoy yourself. Fuck off, shower of cunts.

Feel this way myself but, and I know this isn't the first time I've said so, am increasingly thinking  that's how we're meant to feel. We aren't meant to accept a second lockdown. Pretty sure Johnson used that 'freedom loving Brits won't accept a lockdown' line before the first, and it was only when that turned out to be unpopular that they started taking things more seriously. Six months of gaslighting, obvious double standards, and comms so bad they can only be deliberate have led us to this point.

Edit: and if/when there is a second lockdown, they can blame it on people not following these daft restrictions no-one was ever expected to follow. 'We closed pubs and people just went back to house parties!'
This post was last modified: 09-22-2020, 09:32 PM by Shuto Makino.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Walter Sobchak
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09-23-2020, 07:12 AM -
I think that gives them too much credit.

They don’t know what to do. They want to stop the virus but can’t absolutely fuck business, or hospitality, or retail. They are stuck between two choices and there’ll be people arguing for both, and this is the best compromise they can come up with. The messaging is probably so shit as they can’t get a decent focus group out of it because opinion is so split. Just need to read the last page here to see why, a ton of you saying you won’t follow the rules (which is not the view I’ve heard at work or on group chats I’m in). You have to remember as well that the devolved governments are following the same strategies. It might seem silly but from looking at data they must have come to compromise that the best way to do both (a) slow down virus spread (b) not bankrupt pubs, is a 10pm close.

Look at the nick of Johnson. That is not the face of man behind a Machiavellian scheme.

It’s made way worse by the truthers, the Qanon stuff, the pedo tunnels, the freedom protests, and all that Online disinformation. In finding that all really disturbing, a few random folk - seemingly sensible - I follow on insta, posting Fucking “this is the truth” mix of pizzagate, tunnels and how covid is a lie. It’s so weird but it’s obviously a way for people to process the madness of a global pandemic and economic disaster. It’s really insidious and seeing it creep in all over, in little ways. I am Sure that’s having the desired effect of putting little doubts in a lot of people’s minds.
Felix
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09-23-2020, 07:32 AM -
Can't wait to see the army wandering the streets. Wonder if they'll be armed.

Monty Ha
Shuto Makino
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09-23-2020, 07:50 AM -
(09-23-2020, 07:12 AM)Walter Boycechak Wrote: I think that gives them too much credit.

They don’t know what to do. They want to stop the virus but can’t absolutely fuck business, or hospitality, or retail. They are stuck between two choices and there’ll be people arguing for both, and this is the best compromise they can come up with. The messaging is probably so shit as they can’t get a decent focus group out of it because opinion is so split. Just need to read the last page here to see why, a ton of you saying you won’t follow the rules (which is not the view I’ve heard at work or on group chats I’m in). You have to remember as well that the devolved governments are following the same strategies. It might seem silly but from looking at data they must have come to compromise that the best way to do both (a) slow down virus spread (b) not bankrupt pubs, is a 10pm close.

Look at the nick of Johnson. That is not the face of man behind a Machiavellian scheme.

It’s made way worse by the truthers, the Qanon stuff, the pedo tunnels, the freedom protests, and all that Online disinformation. In finding that all really disturbing, a few random folk - seemingly sensible - I follow on insta, posting Fucking “this is the truth” mix of pizzagate, tunnels and how covid is a lie. It’s so weird but it’s obviously a way for people to process the madness of a global pandemic and economic disaster. It’s really insidious and seeing it creep in all over, in little ways. I am Sure that’s having the desired effect of putting little doubts in a lot of people’s minds.

I do also see this argument, and I'm not saying it's all been a perfectly laid out scheme since day one, but if nothing else I think that the comms of the past few weeks have been directed towards encouraging hostility towards lockdown measures, allowing them to keep as much open as possible and then blame non-compliance for the consequences. Thinking of things like the story of hunting parties being banned from the rule of 6 - if you were looking for a way to discredit the measure, you could barely come up with a better one than that. When I get properly into the conspiracy theorist mindset I think you could take it as far back as the Cummings episode, which seems to have had little long-term impact on the Tories' popularity, but did torpedo any goodwill towards a lockdown they didn't want in the first place. Obviously at that stage I'm reaching, though, and the thing with conspiracy theories is that it's really easy to see patterns where none exist. Contemporary 'right populism' is really difficult to read in the sense that it brings together behind the scenes schemers with absolute buffoons, so any individual incident could either be part of a long-term strategy or just idiots being idiots.

You're definitely right that there's a whole media ecosystem encouraging a kind of blanket scepticism, though. The media environment we live in is such that you essentially get to choose your own 'reality' and will always find output to support it. People have rightly lost trust in official versions of events, but often just blindly transfer it to some other version with even less relation to reality.

Anyway I'm rambling - best case scenario is troops on the streets brutalising anti-maskers around November, confusing fuck out of poppy shaggers nationwide.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Neave
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09-23-2020, 08:01 AM -
(09-23-2020, 07:12 AM)Walter Boycechak Wrote: I think that gives them too much credit.

Not when he was in parliament yesterday gaslighting the nation about its inherent libertarian values meaning lockdowns aren't going to work. He's trying to shift blame away from himself since he knows he has a lot of blood on his hands. He knows (or has been told) exactly what he's doing.

Quote: Look at the nick of Johnson. That is not the face of man behind a Machiavellian scheme.
Think we're seeing a "man" who, for the first time in his life, can't run away or throw money at the problems he's created, and he doesn't know how to deal with it.  It's all very well doing what you can from the shore to secure a No Deal so your rich pals can short against the pound, but when you're suddenly captain of that No Deal ship, reality is going to come and bite you in the arse very quickly. Same with Covid: he knows he's fucked it, and knows he'll be held responsible.
This post was last modified: 09-23-2020, 08:02 AM by Neave.
Jeff Resnick
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09-23-2020, 08:07 AM -
[Image: KGejj3zl.jpg]

Been consistent on YouGov for weeks. Monty Oh Well
Zizou
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09-23-2020, 08:12 AM -
(09-23-2020, 07:12 AM)Walter Boycechak Wrote: You have to remember as well that the devolved governments are following the same strategies. It might seem silly but from looking at data they must have come to compromise that the best way to do both (a) slow down virus spread (b) not bankrupt pubs, is a 10pm close.

I felt that Sturgeon effectively said yesterday if she had control over the furlough scheme then the pubs would be shut now.

We're having to play by the rules the Tories have created.
This post was last modified: 09-23-2020, 08:13 AM by Zizou.
Ray Winstone
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09-23-2020, 08:54 AM -
(09-23-2020, 08:12 AM)Arkadiusz Klimek Wrote: I felt that Sturgeon effectively said yesterday if she had control over the furlough scheme then the pubs would be shut now.

We're having to play by the rules the Tories have created.

Which still achieves nothing.

Staff furloughed which has to end at some point or the business decides to pack it in because they have no income stream anyway to pay their mortgages/rent/rates etc.

She can play political football with furlough but in certain industries that wouldn't be enough to save them regardless.
No rep, no problem Shitwine
Walter Sobchak
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09-23-2020, 08:56 AM -
(09-23-2020, 08:01 AM)Neaven Staismith Wrote: Not when he was in parliament yesterday gaslighting the nation about its inherent libertarian values meaning lockdowns aren't going to work. He's trying to shift blame away from himself since he knows he has a lot of blood on his hands. He knows (or has been told) exactly what he's doing.

I don't think its gaslighting, because he genuinely believes we are a "freedom loving nation".
Poor Playercey
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09-23-2020, 08:59 AM -
It’s just one of those empty jingoistic phrases that he uses. Very “British values” imo.
(08-02-2018, 09:04 AM)Mags Wrote: A resposta é Sim.

Neave
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09-23-2020, 09:23 AM -
(09-23-2020, 08:56 AM)Walter Boycechak Wrote: I don't think its gaslighting, because he genuinely believes we are a "freedom loving nation".

[Image: lx99NNMl.jpg]
Zizou
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09-23-2020, 09:29 AM -
(09-23-2020, 08:54 AM)Ray Winstone Wrote: Which still achieves nothing.

Staff furloughed which has to end at some point or the business decides to pack it in because they have no income stream anyway to pay their mortgages/rent/rates etc.

She can play political football with furlough but in certain industries that wouldn't be enough to save them regardless.

The security of the furlough scheme (even if it's tailored to certain industries) and support for business (another argument) has to be in place while restrictions are in place.

Need to weigh up what's more effective. A short, sharp proper lockdown or these measures which really change very little and are going to lead to a lockdown anyway. Possibly longer as well as the numbers will be higher. I think we would have went for the initial option had the choice been there so I don't see this as 4 nations acting in unity as it's the right way to go. Just my view though, there's not a right or wrong answer.
Sarko
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09-23-2020, 09:31 AM -
(09-23-2020, 09:23 AM)Neaven Staismith Wrote: [Image: lx99NNMl.jpg]

The halcyon days of Tiger King-era lockdown Sob
Zizou
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09-23-2020, 09:34 AM -
Hung S.J.
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09-23-2020, 10:21 AM -
(09-23-2020, 08:56 AM)Walter Boycechak Wrote: I don't think its gaslighting, because he genuinely believes we are a "freedom loving nation".

Yep, his reflex response when someone says Europe are doing things better is just to go off on one about the greatness of britain.
Roger H. Sterling
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09-23-2020, 10:30 AM -
(09-23-2020, 09:34 AM)Arkadiusz Klimek Wrote: https://twitter.com/arctic_jambo/status/...1450098689

Seen a few of these and it is quite funny tbh but you've got to imagine the theory is that the drunker folk get the less likely they are to socially distance. They might just end up starting earlier but I reckon there's less hugging and I love you man's at 10pm than at 1am.

Agree with Lewy in that cunts will just head back to a flat at that time. You'd be better having the cut off at half 10 so folk stay in past the purchasing time of bevvy. I can't see it doing much anyway, just a lack of understanding of drinking culture from politicians, no surprise there. The big one for me is going to be students in halls, you've got groups of up to 8 unconnected folk living together in buildings with dozens of flats where they can come and go without ever being seen. My halls at uni were a step further in that it was multiple buildings of 10 flats/80 students in their own estate of 500-600. You're never stopping them going into each others gaffs or forcing them to isolate when they arrive from another country. Then those students are going out to the bars, restaurants, shops, cafes, on public transport etc. Genuinely see it spreading like wildfire now they students are back.
Sterling Archer
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09-23-2020, 10:42 AM -
(09-23-2020, 10:30 AM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: Seen a few of these and it is quite funny tbh but you've got to imagine the theory is that the drunker folk get the less likely they are to socially distance. They might just end up starting earlier but I reckon there's less hugging and I love you man's at 10pm than at 1am.

Agree with Lewy in that cunts will just head back to a flat at that time. You'd be better having the cut off at half 10 so folk stay in past the purchasing time of bevvy. I can't see it doing much anyway, just a lack of understanding of drinking culture from politicians, no surprise there. The big one for me is going to be students in halls, you've got groups of up to 8 unconnected folk living together in buildings with dozens of flats where they can come and go without ever being seen. My halls at uni were a step further in that it was multiple buildings of 10 flats/80 students in their own estate of 500-600. You're never stopping them going into each others gaffs or forcing them to isolate when they arrive from another country. Then those students are going out to the bars, restaurants, shops, cafes, on public transport etc. Genuinely see it spreading like wildfire now they students are back.

Woolmanhill? The thought of spending a covid lockdown there Monty LewLew
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09-23-2020, 10:47 AM -
(09-23-2020, 07:50 AM)Makween Wrote: I do also see this argument, and I'm not saying it's all been a perfectly laid out scheme since day one, but if nothing else I think that the comms of the past few weeks have been directed towards encouraging hostility towards lockdown measures, allowing them to keep as much open as possible and then blame non-compliance for the consequences. Thinking of things like the story of hunting parties being banned from the rule of 6 - if you were looking for a way to discredit the measure, you could barely come up with a better one than that. When I get properly into the conspiracy theorist mindset I think you could take it as far back as the Cummings episode, which seems to have had little long-term impact on the Tories' popularity, but did torpedo any goodwill towards a lockdown they didn't want in the first place. Obviously at that stage I'm reaching, though, and the thing with conspiracy theories is that it's really easy to see patterns where none exist. Contemporary 'right populism' is really difficult to read in the sense that it brings together behind the scenes schemers with absolute buffoons, so any individual incident could either be part of a long-term strategy or just idiots being idiots.

You're definitely right that there's a whole media ecosystem encouraging a kind of blanket scepticism, though. The media environment we live in is such that you essentially get to choose your own 'reality' and will always find output to support it. People have rightly lost trust in official versions of events, but often just blindly transfer it to some other version with even less relation to reality.

Anyway I'm rambling - best case scenario is troops on the streets brutalising anti-maskers around November, confusing fuck out of poppy shaggers nationwide.


That last sentence Monty Chuckle

I’m kind of in between both of these arguments, but leaning closer to yours. They are crushingly incompetent and have absolutely caused this mess through that incompetence, but it’s also *definitely* their strategy to shift blame on to the public and get away with it. Remember this is a governing elite who are obsessed with behavioural psychology - the “nudge group”, the reliance on Cummings, the analytics - and they act in ways that they think will elicit the desired responses from the electorate. They may be incompetent, but they also act in a way that they believe will drive the public to behave how they want them to behave. It’s much more insidious than just “they’re idiots and fuck up all the time”, although that is also true.

Johnson doesn’t run the country in any meaningful way, so his buffoonery isn’t necessarily the key indicator of what is going on. And you’re definitely right to imply that we are complacent about the existence of the Machiavellian in the right because it’s so obscured by the noise of so many utter cretins.
Felix
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09-23-2020, 10:53 AM -
Daughter just back from uni for a driving lesson and says there are no controls (self or otherwise) over going in and out of other flats/blocks.

Just a matter of time before the university halls are all locked down.
Roger H. Sterling
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09-23-2020, 10:57 AM -
(09-23-2020, 10:42 AM)Sterling Archer Wrote: Woolmanhill? The thought of spending a covid lockdown there  Monty LewLew

That's the one. Covid wouldn't be the first virus to work its way round those flats. Zero chance of containment.



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