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Contagion 2020
Started by Felix




8687 posts in this topic
2NaPoodle
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01-14-2021, 07:11 AM -
Prisoners live in close quarters, and that can't be mitigated. If you believe that prisoners have lost all human rights thenn fine, there's no discussion to be had.

But I doubt any reasonable person would argue that one of the rights lost when incarcerated is the right to heathcare. At what point prisoners are vaccinated is worthy of discussion, but that people held by the state in confined spaces should be given some protection in a pandemic is something to be opposed to only by barbarians.
Chris Benoit
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01-14-2021, 07:29 AM -
(01-14-2021, 07:11 AM)2NaPoodle Wrote: Prisoners live in close quarters, and that can't be mitigated. If you believe that prisoners have lost all human rights thenn fine, there's no discussion to be had.

But I doubt any reasonable person would argue that one of the rights lost when incarcerated is the right to heathcare. At what point prisoners are vaccinated is worthy of discussion, but that people held by the state in confined spaces should be given some protection in a pandemic is something to be opposed to only by barbarians.


Hekens
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01-14-2021, 08:09 AM -
Yeah, healthcare shouldn't be conditional on good behaviour. She's right.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Papin
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01-14-2021, 08:46 AM -
Surely if the prison guards are vaccinated and there is some controls in place around visitation the virus shouldn’t be getting into prison. Agree with her sentiment though.
Zizou
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01-14-2021, 08:50 AM -
What is the argument behind prioritising them? They should be given it in their priority groups like the rest of the population.

There’s about 100 groups that should have priority before prisoners tbh.
Staunch Halliday
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01-14-2021, 09:16 AM -
She isn’t asking for prisoners to be prioritised but prisons and staff in general due to the close proximity that both staff and inmates are held in 24/7.
Monty Oh You
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01-14-2021, 10:00 AM -
(01-14-2021, 09:16 AM)Staunch Halliday Wrote: She isn’t asking for prisoners to be prioritised but prisons and staff in general due to the close proximity that both staff and inmates are held in 24/7.

Yeah - the actual phrase she used was 'prison users', but that was jumped upon by Guido & co as leftie PC woke gone mad (i.e. not wanting to call prisoners prisoners, when the whole point of the phrase is that not only prisoners use prisons). She's arguing that they should be prioritised as it's a space where large numbers of people are constantly in close proximity.

(01-14-2021, 08:50 AM)Zizou Wrote: There’s about 100 groups that should have priority before prisoners tbh.

Can you name any that aren't already being prioritised? I'd say arguably teachers and school staff. Can't think of many more, but don't think she's arguing prisoners should be prioritised first anyway.
This post was last modified: 01-14-2021, 10:02 AM by Makween.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Johnny
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01-14-2021, 10:06 AM -
Dont see why they should be vaccinated any quicker than others. Guards etc aye as they are coming in and out. Visitors, surely all their visits are done over zoom and/or just phone calls for now. That can continue until such a time as we are all vaccined up or covid free

Tough stuff, lots of visitors likely wont have access to such devices that can zoom, but then if i aint allowed a pint and even to see pals then tough stuff for prisoners. I have some sympathy with them, but guards etc should be priority, ya cunt prisoners are locked in, they should be one of the least exposed to covid

Monty Chuckle

Unless of course it comes into the prison, then aye, I imagine it will rip right through everybody.

Keep it out and we dont have a problem


^^ Daily Mail Johnny ^^

Mccringe
pondlife
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01-14-2021, 10:10 AM -
If there's some that are auld or have underlying comorbities (aye dumb af!) then they can ask to 'shield' ... in solitary, until they get the vaccine, of course   Monty Smug
This post was last modified: 01-14-2021, 10:10 AM by pondlife.
Zizou
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01-14-2021, 10:13 AM -
(01-14-2021, 10:00 AM)Makween Wrote: Can you name any that aren't already being prioritised? I'd say arguably teachers and school staff. Can't think of many more, but don't think she's arguing prisoners should be prioritised first anyway.

Obviously exaggerating with 100 but school teachers, police, fire brigade, supermarket workers, construction workers (and anyone who has no choice but to go to work really).

I was just looking for the context behind the tweet because it would be strange if she was suggesting prisoners should be at the very top of the list but it would appear she isn't.
Johnny
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01-14-2021, 10:14 AM -
A month in the hole!

[Image: C0K1ATZVEAAvqID.jpg]
Little Bit Of The Boycey
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01-14-2021, 10:16 AM -
A few white van men on here likes Monty Chuckle
Jeff Resnick
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01-14-2021, 10:43 AM -
(01-14-2021, 10:06 AM)Johnny Wrote: Unless of course it comes into the prison, then aye, I imagine it will rip right through everybody.

Keep it out and we dont have a problem

This is why its rife in prisons in the UK and USA - conditions are often quite cramped and overcrowded meaning the virus has ample opportunity to move amongst the population once someone, like a prison officer, family member, social worker etc enter the prison and pass it on.

As Mak said, the actual phrase the MP used (which was a bit clumsy), was 'prison users' rather than 'prisoners' and Daily Mail types latched onto it, instead of thinking exactly who'll be in a prison, at any one time.

In other news, an interesting thread on compliance:

This post was last modified: 01-14-2021, 10:44 AM by Jeff Resnick.
Felix
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01-14-2021, 10:46 AM -
(01-14-2021, 10:14 AM)Johnny Wrote: A month in the hole!

[Image: C0K1ATZVEAAvqID.jpg]

[Image: 2eREg2bl.jpg]
theMAGANATOR
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01-14-2021, 10:47 AM -
Has there been any significant outbreak in prisons to date?

The good thing about vaccinating prisoners is that they’re all in one place and it would be easy to organise.

In terms of their priority - teachers and nursery staff are more important imo to get kids back learning and easing the pressure on parents etc. But don’t see why you can’t do both at the same time. Jezza
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Jeff Resnick
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01-14-2021, 10:53 AM -
(01-14-2021, 10:47 AM)theMAGANATOR Wrote: Has there been any significant outbreak in prisons to date?

Cases up 70% and deaths up 50% in the last month alone (England and Wales):

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021...irus-cases

Pretty sure Barlinnie had to put a whole wing into isolation a few months back as well.

Such were the concerns about Covid in prisons, some prisoners were given early release to help curb the spread.
Acey
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01-14-2021, 11:00 AM -
Every death in custody requires a fatal accident inquiry, so you (not me) could make an argument that vaccinating prisoners would save money in the long run.
theMAGANATOR
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01-14-2021, 11:05 AM -
Get the baddies jabbed pronto then imo
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pondlife
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01-14-2021, 11:12 AM -
Surely they could just stamp the certificate 'Suspected Covid Death', and ignore the home-made chiv stuck in their neck. That would make the enquiry fairly easy, and cheap, in these unprescedented times.
Neaven Staismith
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01-14-2021, 11:41 AM -
Worked in a prison for three years and can imagine it spreading completely out of control in that environment. It's literally impossible to keep a 2m distance from others in HMP Edinburgh at least, given how narrow the corridors are between halls, the fact that most remands are two to a cell, that none of the blocks except the women's block have ensuite, and that dozens of prisoners often share one 7-a-side pitch-sized exercise yard. Then you've got the flow of staff in and out through the one entrance/exit, most of whom have had direct contact with prisoners or hall staff.

Even in my work now, judges in England make reference to how riddled with Covid prisons are when sentencing people Eek



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