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'Wings Over TalkHearts' Politics Thread
Started by Sterling Archer




31387 posts in this topic
Morph
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04-05-2020, 10:56 AM -
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/j...m-21814351

No surprise JRM is making money of a global health crisis.
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Zizou
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04-05-2020, 10:59 AM -
(04-05-2020, 10:47 AM)Morph Wrote: So is he going to just be one of these guys who tell people what they want to hear to gain their support?

That anti semitism thing was just a big smear for labour at the time, didn’t hear a word about it after the election until now which is quite something for an issue that was apparently so rife.

There are something like 130 outstanding anti-semitism cases against the Labour party. Hundreds of complaints from Labour members. Jewish MP's left.

Like it or not, it's a real issue.
Morph
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04-05-2020, 11:08 AM -
(04-05-2020, 10:59 AM)Ross Kemp On Spice Wrote: There are something like 130 outstanding anti-semitism cases against the Labour party. Hundreds of complaints from Labour members. Jewish MP's left.

Like it or not, it's a real issue.

Were the MPs that left not the ones who left to create the independent group at the time? I’m sure it was anti semitism at the forefront of that decision.

130 cases against a party with 500,000 members? I’m not disputing there will be problems with anti semitism in the party, there will be racism, sexism, homophobia the lot. The problem with the anti semitism was the Labour Party was made out to be a hot bed of anti semitism because Corbyn and others who shared his political beliefs slated Israel openly.

Maybe Starmers only option was to do that but it’s sickening that something so serious has been allowed to be used to discredit individuals/labour. Just seems strange that all these strong critics of anti semitism in labour just stopped caring the minute Johnson won the election.
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Shuto Makino
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04-05-2020, 11:49 AM -
Anti-Semitism was both a smear and a real issue. I'm not convinced that Labour were any worse than anyone else, but that really doesn't matter - it can't always be about whataboutery. Starmer is right to take a stance on it early on, although I wouldn't want to see him too passively accepting the Board of Deputies as spokespeople for British Jews.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Johnny
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04-05-2020, 02:33 PM -
(04-05-2020, 10:47 AM)Morph Wrote: So is he going to just be one of these guys who tell people what they want to hear to gain their support?


What like, Brexit means Brexit, Get Brexit done! Take back control! £500 million a week for the NHS! "People are tired of experts!".
Johnny
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04-05-2020, 02:39 PM -
(04-05-2020, 11:49 AM)Makween Wrote: the Board of Deputies as spokespeople for British Jews.

Should ask Lawson Monty Chuckle
Morph
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04-05-2020, 02:40 PM -
(04-05-2020, 02:33 PM)Johnny Wrote: What like, Brexit means Brexit, Get Brexit done! Take back control! £500 million a week for the NHS! "People are tired of experts!".

Yeah that’s what I was getting at.
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Johnny
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04-05-2020, 02:40 PM -
Telling people what they want to hear is how to get elected m8 Sound
Morph
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04-05-2020, 02:45 PM -
(04-05-2020, 02:40 PM)Johnny Wrote: Telling people what they want to hear is how to get elected m8  Sound
Yeah I know and I’ve spent the last however long moaning my arse off at Johnson and Cummings for doing it.

Brexit is based on populism and I hope Starmer isn’t one of these guys who just tell people what they want. I thought the whole anti semitism thing was out of order the way it was used against labour and to me that looks as if Starmer is saying what people want labour to say and take responsibility for all the lies and smears thrown at them.

Appreciate that there was legitimate issues but the way it played out made labour look like it was the nazi party at times and the way I read Starmers statement made me think he is agreeing with those criticisms.

Understand it’s a difficult position to have to manage but just feel like he’s justified the message that all those people were pushing.
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Cheeky Gnando’s
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04-05-2020, 02:59 PM -
It has to be a strong and decisive message though, or it will keep rumbling on. Imagine he’d come out with some mealy mouthed “yeah but” apology?

You can think it’s a manufactured issue and it was to an extent, but that’s not what a lot of Jewish people feel and it is totally counterproductive to caveat your apologies.
Hung S.J.
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04-05-2020, 11:59 PM -
Begbie you’re coming across as a bit of a centrist cuck in all honesty. (Tongue in cheek but still..)

My position for a long time was for starmer to be the electable face of the Corbyn project. This is a little different as he’s at best going to forge a middle way which means diluting a lot of the structural reforms many people desperately need in the pursuit of “electability”. Personally I think the more radical stuff in the manifesto would be the more popular things, people just need a credible guy in a smart suit to give people confidence that it can be delivered.

I will keep me counsel for a year or two and see what Starmer comes up with. I’m really interested but inevitably some of the more reformist policies will be watered down. Arguably at a time when we need imaginative ideas for new systems of governance and radical investment.
This post was last modified: 04-06-2020, 12:03 AM by Hung S.J..
Shuto Makino
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04-06-2020, 07:22 AM -
(04-05-2020, 11:59 PM)Grumblebum Wrote: Personally I think the more radical stuff in the manifesto would be the more popular things, people just need a credible guy in a smart suit to give people confidence that it can be delivered.

Although it slightly goes against what I said earlier about politics not just being about polished men in suits any more, I think this sums up some of the problems I have. Corbyn's actual policies polled well - the problem was people's perception of Corbyn (an open question how much of that was down to media vilification and how much was down to his own inability to play the game, media-wise). I'm trying hard to be positive about Starmer, but seeing the likes of Rachel Reeves in the shadow cabinet (yes, of course we need to wait to see the rest of the appointees before drawing conclusions) makes me worry that his masterplan for winning back Labour leavers is to abandon popular policies and be a bit more socially conservative, which, imo, would be both morally and tactically wrong - it'd lose the younger voters and BAME voters brought on board by Corbyn without winning back Brexit types who, if they want a party that acts like the Tories, will probably just vote for the Tories. I'm not convinced there's a road to victory for Labour, but if that's Starmer's strategy (and obviously it's conjecture at this stage), I'd see it as the worst of both worlds.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
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I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Shanklands Fivehead
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04-06-2020, 08:11 AM -
Who are you losing young/BAME voters too en masse?

regardless, they barely bother turning up to vote as it is Monty Oh Well
Shuto Makino
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04-06-2020, 08:40 AM -
(04-06-2020, 08:11 AM)Picards Forehead Wrote: Who are you losing young/BAME voters too en masse?

regardless, they barely bother turning up to vote as it is Monty Oh Well

Losing them to abstention, where - as you rightly point out - they were before.

'They don't turn out to vote' would be a good argument, strategically if not morally, if the approach I outlined above would pick voters up elsewhere. I don't think it would.

People who make this kind of argument are essentially assuming young/BAME voters will continue voting Labour anyway as there's no option for them - you'd think people would have noticed by now what the outcome was of holding the Scottish, and subsequently northern English, electorates in that kind of contempt.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Shanklands Fivehead
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04-06-2020, 09:20 AM -
was reading some rumour that Sturgeon is in danger of getting outed for travelling backwards and forwards to her french girlfriend's pad during quarantine  Monty Chuckle

edit:

https://twitter.com/nobodytoknow/status/...7571762177

Zlat
This post was last modified: 04-06-2020, 09:21 AM by Shanklands Fivehead.
Shteve
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04-06-2020, 09:23 AM -
Can we get some cunt watching Morgan like a hawk, camping outside his house watching his every move just to shut the cunt up.
Zizou
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04-06-2020, 09:33 AM -
Morgan could be doing his job from home so he is a hypocrite to some extent. He's following the rules though.
Roger H. Sterling
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04-06-2020, 09:34 AM -
Is Sturgeon gay? Is that common knowledge? Not that it matters like, just didn't know.
Shanklands Fivehead
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04-06-2020, 09:39 AM -
(04-06-2020, 09:34 AM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: Is Sturgeon gay? Is that common knowledge? Not that it matters like, just didn't know.

one of those open secrets on twitter that probably isn't even true Warnock
Walter Sobchak
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04-06-2020, 10:03 AM -
There is a unionist rumour that Sturgeon has a girlfriend, varying levels to this, think one is that she's the french consul or something,



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