This forum uses cookies
This forum makes use of cookies to store your login information if you are registered, and your last visit if you are not. Cookies are small text documents stored on your computer; the cookies set by this forum can only be used on this website and pose no security risk. Cookies on this forum also track the specific topics you have read and when you last read them. Please confirm whether you accept or reject these cookies being set.

A cookie will be stored in your browser regardless of choice to prevent you being asked this question again. You will be able to change your cookie settings at any time using the link in the footer.
'Wings Over TalkHearts' Politics Thread
Started by Sterling Archer




31387 posts in this topic
The Great Naisy
Morph is a wee wank

Posts: 23,117
Threads: 126
Joined: May 2015
Reputation: 1,882
Status: Offline

07-08-2020, 09:43 PM -
Would you like me to be a cat
Mikey
Human Rights Respecter

Posts: 11,066
Threads: 13
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,164
Status: Online

07-08-2020, 09:44 PM -
jjay
Shuto Makino
1-1 :jos:

Posts: 16,759
Threads: 55
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 1,630
Status: Offline

07-08-2020, 09:52 PM -
I will never tire of the time George Galloway grassed up Alan Sugar to the Pope.

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/statu...06212?s=19
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Poor Playercey
Slug and not physical

Posts: 42,285
Threads: 205
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 3,193
Status: Offline

07-08-2020, 10:02 PM -
Monty Chuckle
(08-02-2018, 09:04 AM)Mags Wrote: A resposta é Sim.

Cheeky Gnando’s
Jumbo Soldier

Posts: 18,842
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,411
Status: Offline

07-09-2020, 09:38 AM -
https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1...37440?s=20

Voted against it Monty Ha These fucking rats man, absolutely shameless.
Sterling Archer
The Foracle

Posts: 13,064
Threads: 103
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 562
Status: Offline

07-09-2020, 09:46 AM -
(07-09-2020, 09:38 AM)Little Bit Of The Boycey Wrote: https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1...37440?s=20

Voted against it Monty Ha These fucking rats man, absolutely shameless.

Monty Oh Well
Poor Playercey
Slug and not physical

Posts: 42,285
Threads: 205
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 3,193
Status: Offline

07-09-2020, 10:26 AM -
Was that not an amendment he voted against, rather than the bill itself?
(08-02-2018, 09:04 AM)Mags Wrote: A resposta é Sim.

Shuto Makino
1-1 :jos:

Posts: 16,759
Threads: 55
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 1,630
Status: Offline

07-09-2020, 10:20 PM -
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Hung S.J.
Elite

Posts: 42,914
Threads: 970
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,341
Status: Online

07-10-2020, 08:04 AM -
Prick. That makes me angry.
Shuto Makino
1-1 :jos:

Posts: 16,759
Threads: 55
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 1,630
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 08:23 AM -
I thought he'd take Labour a bit more towards the centre, but hoped it'd take the form of a presentable looking, 'electable' leftish social democracy. Feared a return to Milibandism. Did not expect his messaging to involve trying to outflank the Tories on the right economically. Heh
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Shanklands Fivehead
Seize the memes of production

Posts: 12,192
Threads: 47
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 917
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 08:38 AM -
Not sure what’s particularly right wing about what he’s said there. Think the pair of you are desperate to find fault with Starmer on everything just now Monty Oh Well

The furlough bonus is poorly designed and allows big companies to continue taking the piss and raking in government cash while businesses that weren’t able to furlough staff effectively are going to the wall with little or no support.
This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 08:41 AM by Shanklands Fivehead.
Hung S.J.
Elite

Posts: 42,914
Threads: 970
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,341
Status: Online

07-10-2020, 09:01 AM -
Picard, I really don’t see this as the beginning of a brave Labour strategy from Starmer to take on the power of big corporates - I’d love for it to be the case.

I more than most recognise the inequality that rampant corporatism creates and perpetuates but I won’t be suggesting means-testing furlough schemes as the solution Warnock

The narrative he is consciously developing here is that the Tories are wilfully and recklessly spending too much (imo, woefully incorrect and an immoral take in this crucial moment of history).

Labour should be hounding Tories over the fake FDR bullshit ‘New Deal’. Not promoting austere narratives.
This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 09:03 AM by Hung S.J..
Shanklands Fivehead
Seize the memes of production

Posts: 12,192
Threads: 47
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 917
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 09:14 AM -
I think the narrative he’s pushing is the government are wasting money with blanket schemes while entire sectors are being ignored Monty Oh Well and the chancellor is saying “sorry can’t protect every job, have a katsu curry instead” Warnock
Shuto Makino
1-1 :jos:

Posts: 16,759
Threads: 55
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 1,630
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 09:45 AM -
(07-10-2020, 08:38 AM)Picards Forehead Wrote: Not sure what’s particularly right wing about what he’s said there. Think the pair of you are desperate to find fault with Starmer on everything just now Monty Oh Well

The furlough bonus is poorly designed and allows big companies to continue taking the piss and raking in government cash while businesses that weren’t able to furlough staff effectively are going to the wall with little or no support.

If my criticism of Starmer is that he's taking the party further right than I'd like to see, and you, a Lib Dem, are impressed with him, maybe that's not necessarily evidence of me 'trying to find fault with him on everything'. Monty Oh Well I did try to give him a chance, but he's been terrible.

If there was ever a time to speak in universalist language rather than that of 'targeting those who need it', it's now - the furlough scheme absolutely deserves criticism for failing to adequately protect everyone, but the role of the left opposition should be to demand that it be rolled out further rather than to imply that spending should (at best) be kept at the current level, but reallocated elsewhere - which is accepting the rhetoric of austerity. I'd say that he's doing so very consciously - 'we can't afford dead weight' wasn't just an unfortunate slip of the tongue. The current situation has created an unprecedented opportunity to make the case for universal provision, and Starmer has shown no interest in making it.

'Outflanking the Tories on the right' was an exaggeration tbf - but he's certainly not showing himself to be very far to their left.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE

Shanklands Fivehead
Seize the memes of production

Posts: 12,192
Threads: 47
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 917
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 09:50 AM -
Paid up member of the SNP these days jjay but I take your point Warnock
Cheeky Gnando’s
Jumbo Soldier

Posts: 18,842
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,411
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 09:55 AM -
(07-10-2020, 08:23 AM)Makween Wrote: I thought he'd take Labour a bit more towards the centre, but hoped it'd take the form of a presentable looking, 'electable' leftish social democracy. Feared a return to Milibandism. Did not expect his messaging to involve trying to outflank the Tories on the right economically. Heh

He had such a low bar to clear in terms of his messaging - just present a social democratic vision in the professional veneer that he’d already demonstrated he had. It’s depressing how far removed from that he’s been.

(07-10-2020, 09:01 AM)S.J. Wrote: Picard, I really don’t see this as the beginning of a brave Labour strategy from Starmer to take on the power of big corporates - I’d love for it to be the case.

I more than most recognise the inequality that rampant corporatism creates and perpetuates but I won’t be suggesting means-testing furlough schemes as the solution Warnock

The narrative he is consciously developing here is that the Tories are wilfully and recklessly spending too much (imo, woefully incorrect and an immoral take in this crucial moment of history).

Labour should be hounding Tories over the fake FDR bullshit ‘New Deal’. Not promoting austere narratives.


I think Picard’s maybe not appreciating that this isn’t an isolated issue. He was elected with quite a bit of benefit of doubt for me - his voting record was pretty decent, as a loyal member of the Shadow Cabinet he’d been a supporter of Corbyn’s social democratic agenda and his leadership election platform included things like nationalisation of rail and energy, the green new deal and increasing tax for the top 5% - but that benefit of the doubt has eroded rapidly. Only so many times you can hand wave things away with “this is a long term strategy”. There has been precious little of the socialism, or even social democracy, that he claimed to adhere to.
Papin
Ego Amigo

Posts: 7,836
Threads: 23
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 774
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 10:03 AM -
And yet according to the Polls, Starmer is the most popular Labour Leader since Blair Jezza
Hung S.J.
Elite

Posts: 42,914
Threads: 970
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,341
Status: Online

07-10-2020, 10:10 AM -
Was Blair not the most unpopular man in Britain alongside Harold Shipman by the time he left office? I don’t think the Blair comparisons you often make are the zingers you think they are Warnock
This post was last modified: 07-10-2020, 10:10 AM by Hung S.J..
Cheeky Gnando’s
Jumbo Soldier

Posts: 18,842
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 1,411
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 10:20 AM -
(07-10-2020, 10:03 AM)Papin Wrote: And yet according to the Polls, Starmer is the most popular Labour Leader since Blair Jezza

The competition is Brown, Miliband and Corbyn, and it’s 10 years into a shambolic and callous Tory government May Bee

It’s not really a comeback to the argument that he has been a massive disappointment in terms of policy so far (because the hope was that he’d ally his obvious competence to a social democratic agenda) to say that he has positive personal poll ratings. We all know that he’s a solid and competent leader, but people are rightly concerned about the direction the party is being taken in.
Shuto Makino
1-1 :jos:

Posts: 16,759
Threads: 55
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 1,630
Status: Offline

07-10-2020, 10:21 AM -
(07-10-2020, 10:03 AM)Papin Wrote: And yet according to the Polls, Starmer is the most popular Labour Leader since Blair Jezza

None of the Labour leaders since Blair have won an election, so this doesn't necessarily mean that much in itself. Still behind Johnson, isn't he?

I'm torn, because I can't imagine circumstances under which I won't want Starmer to win the next general election, but equally it will be really funny watching the Sensible Moderates recalibrate their entire worldview when he still loses, either because Johnson toughs it out and beats him by still smearing him as an SJW Marxist anyway, or because Johnson is replaced by Sunak as soon as it looks like Starmer might win.

Seriously, though, as much as I might not like the shift to the right on social values, and think it's probably too simplistic to argue that Labour will 'win back working class voters' in that way, I at least see the argument. In terms of policies like the furlough scheme, my sense is that the 'socially conservative' swing voters he's meant to be aiming at would respond quite well to a framing of the furlough scheme as needing expanded rather than reallocated.
(08-21-2017, 01:25 PM)i8hibsh Wrote: I AM A LONER BY CHOICE
I AM SINGLE BY CHOICE
I HAVE NO KIDS BY CHOICE




Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 22 Guest(s)