(05-08-2015, 06:18 AM)S.J. Wrote: Yes, you clearly do not understand PR, if you think Tories would have a mandate for a government under their current %age. They would be nowhere near it.
But no other party would, so under PR you'd have either a Tory minority government, a coalition or the largest party in an opposition block. That's forgetting the fact that you failed to address my actual comment, something that you tend to do when you're salty.
Please tell me how I don't understand PR rather than just telling me I don't.
IMO, SJ and Begbie are raging that SNP didn't manage to find themselves propping up a Labour minority and are unable to unjustify their positions with facts so they resort to using their education to claim I'm wrong other than facts.
Classic sign that you're struggling with your argument, just because some wankshaft gave you a lecture doesn't mean you have a greater understanding of things than me. Please present your arguments because right now you look like bitter mugs.
The Conservatives, along with all other mainstream parties, have been utterly rejected by the Scottish electorate. This isn't a case of them finishing close in our constituencies, they are an also-ran. We're not talking about a constituency here, we are talking about a discrete country within the union.
The point being made was that the SNP will see a Tory majority as the perfect scenario for them, as they may not quite have an elective dictatorship, but they will have full parliamentary control. They may well have been given the mandate of that majority across the 650 constituencies, but that mandate was certainly not granted by the Scottish electorate. Decisively so. That's not even a controversial statement, so you can put your wee Levein smilie away.
That point has absolutely nothing to do with PR. It's to do with the democratic will of the Scottish electorate, and the future politics that will be played by the SNP.
(05-08-2015, 06:31 AM)Donald Dank Wrote: IMO, SJ and Begbie are raging that SNP didn't manage to find themselves propping up a Labour minority and are unable to unjustify their positions with facts so they resort to using their education to claim I'm wrong other than facts.
Classic sign that you're struggling with your argument, just because some wankshaft gave you a lecture doesn't mean you have a greater understanding of things than me. Please present your arguments because right now you look like bitter mugs.
That's poor from you LP. I hadn't even replied to your post at this point, and it was you who brought up my job. Get yourself off to bed as I think you're quite grouchy
Something I can't quite get my head around is the people celebrating the SNP result, like it actually means something. We're still going to be governed by Tories, something that we could have avoided if we'd voted differently in September.
(05-08-2015, 06:34 AM)Francis Begbie Wrote: Are you deliberately being obtuse, LP?
The Conservatives, along with all other mainstream parties, have been utterly rejected by the Scottish electorate. This isn't a case of them finishing close in our constituencies, they are an also-ran. We're not talking about a constituency here, we are talking about a discrete country within the union.
The point being made was that the SNP will see a Tory majority as the perfect scenario for them, as they may not quite have an elective dictatorship, but they will have full parliamentary control. They may well have been given the mandate of that majority across the 650 constituencies, but that mandate was certainly not granted by the Scottish electorate. Decisively so. That's not even a controversial statement, so you can put your wee Levein smilie away.
That point has absolutely nothing to do with PR. It's to do with the democratic will of the Scottish electorate, and the future politics that will be played by the SNP.
Me? Never.
Are we talking about a discrete country because I was under the impression we were talking about the country the election was actually taking place in and across?
The alleged point being made is the point I actually made when I started posting in this thread, having any legislative control would be a nightmare for the SNP because a lot of their policies were populist and unworkable. The elected representatives of the Scottish constituencies will have every right to make their concerns heard from the opposition benches.
PR was a separate issue, I was contesting your point that the Tories had no Scottish mandate because they had only one seat (declared at this point) despite the fact that they regularly receive a disproportionate percentage of the vote compared to the seats that they actually win. Their support across Scotland may be sparse but it is concentrated across the rest of the UK and that compensates for this because overall it is representative of the way the UK voted.
Your argument is weak and personal in it's position, that's why you're wrong and you're being rag-dolled by someone that didn't even take Standard Grade Modern Studies.
(05-08-2015, 06:38 AM)Francis Begbie Wrote: That's poor from you LP. I hadn't even replied to your post at this point, and it was you who brought up my job. Get yourself off to bed as I think you're quite grouchy
I'm on a political high bud, u?
See my post above, goes as much for the issue shirker SJ more than yourself. Post something, get quoted and find you're attacked on something else. That's what I object to, I think my point is reasonable and I think that the responses I've had are not based in reason but emotion.
05-08-2015, 06:57 AM (Edited 05-08-2015, 06:59 AM by Hung S.J..)
(05-08-2015, 06:31 AM)Donald Dank Wrote: IMO, SJ and Begbie are raging that SNP didn't manage to find themselves propping up a Labour minority and are unable to unjustify their positions with facts so they resort to using their education to claim I'm wrong other than facts.
Classic sign that you're struggling with your argument, just because some wankshaft gave you a lecture doesn't mean you have a greater understanding of things than me. Please present your arguments because right now you look like bitter mugs.
Yes, approximately 400,000 folk voted for Tories in Scotland - just like last time. If you think you are making a fresh, innovative point by pointing this out, then fair enough. Most people are aware that Tories will pull 15-18% of the share of the vote in Scotland, it has been this for over 30 years.
Regarding the bit in bold, it's clear you have an underlying issue here. You are usually a reasonable poster - so I'll bow out and you can bask in you internet victory.
(05-08-2015, 06:57 AM)S.J. Wrote: Yes, approximately 400,000 folk voted for Tories in Scotland - just like last time. If you think you are making a fresh, innovative point by pointing this out, then fair enough. Most people are aware that Tories will pull 15-18% of the share of the vote in Scotland, it has been this for over 30 years.
Regarding the bit in bold, it's clear you have an underlying issue here. You are usually a reasonable poster - so I'll bow out and you can bask in you internet victory.
FUCK YEAH
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and no I don't think I'm making a fresh point by saying Tories poll around those percentages in most elections. I don't like you saying that I know nothing about PR and then failing to substantiate it when I ask you to though.
I don't have an underlying issue, I was just trying to bait you in to actually responding to the points I made rather than cheap dismissals of any argument against your position.
My gut feeling is that ironically the SNP landslide has actually delivered a Tory majority. There will be a lot of Middle englanders who were scared of a Labour minority government held to ransom by the SNP and have gone to the Tories to stop that.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and no I don't think I'm making a fresh point by saying Tories poll around those percentages in most elections. I don't like you saying that I know nothing about PR and then failing to substantiate it when I ask you to though.
I don't have an underlying issue, I was just trying to bait you in to actually responding to the points I made rather than cheap dismissals of any argument against your position.
I do usually like debates, but it's 8 in the morning and need to get ready for work.
We can analyse it together properly in the next few days, but my posts right now will mostly be 5 words and mostly just be moans.